Pulse Induction?

Hi guys, I'd appreciate your respective takes on any benefits provided by the PI detectors over and above some increase in depth. That’s a lot of ground to cover but I’m toying with the idea of getting another machine that I can use both in the surf and at depth (deep-saltwater and in gold bearing river holes). I currently use a Whites MXT and I think it’s all the machine I’ll need up until the water approaches the control box. While I’ve done a little reading and asked a few folks in the business, I didn’t necessarily want to dismiss the PIs outright. Is the added depth provided by the PI machines significant? Particularly if I'm interested in more than finding and lifting large ferrous objects to the surface. 2) My understanding is that PIs do offer a certain amount of discrimination but that Iron signals are something I would always have to contend with ((and dig???)) if I’m wanting to pull gold or silver or clad. 3) Am I jumping the gun on the purchase of a wet machine in light of what might be around the corner come spring? I appreciate that’s a rather neurotic concern in the purchase of any technology based doodad but maybe I thinks I heard on an earlier forum something about the best of both worlds. Anyway, I figured I’d talk to the people that are working in the wet everyday before making a decision based on my understanding of an article or two or worse yet someone’s profit margin. Thanks

Flannigan

[Buster]

Muse, I use mostly a Whites XLT and I have just gotten a Whites PI. Have used it a little at the beach. Found I think 35 or 40 pull tabs and bottle caps in one day along with clad and a ring...I didn't get way into the water as of yet...this was pretty much only surface beach hunting.. These machines will pick up metal for sure. That's what it is all about..If it rings, then something is there. I can't wait to get into the water..Still getting my equipment ready...Procrastinate for sure...I will get into the water soon...I would see if BDA has any thoughts on this...He is a great water hunter and a pirate to boot...gives real good advise...If this does not help, then I would also check some back posts and maybe ask the sponsors also...Happy Hunting....Buster.....

[The TINMAN]

Hey Muse, I'm sure bda will see this and chime in as he has far more knowledge on this than alot of us. I Can tell Ya This.. If your goin IN and Under the Water YA want a Good Machine. Stay away from the Chinese Brands. The Minelab Excals have the " Iron Mask " Feature wich eliminates a lot of digging trash as I understand it and They gets Great Reviews. bda is an Excal guy and can Clue Ya In. Another Option is the Whites Beachunter ID with the 3 LED lights to give you an Idea if your over Iron.. Coins or Jewlery. I'm gonna try one this Spring. If Ya look in That Direction then Ya want to get a 12' Spider coil when Ya buy the detector. The Stock one is NOT a Zero Bouyancy coil and will want to Float on Ya in the Water. The Whites Service Center In Monasses Virginia will do it and the Warranty will still Apply. They have the Spider Coils there. I have the Info but not in front of me and If you think about going that way let me know and I will PM you what I have. With the Coil from Them and Installation I believe is about $200 or $225 with shipping. If Ya get the coil somewhere else than I think it is about $65.00 Plus Shipping wich I think is about $15.00. As I said I have it and can give Ya exact info if Ya want. I have one of the New Fisher CZ21s but have not been able to get out yet. From all I've heard The Excals and the CZ are the Hot 2. I don't know if the Tesoro Tiger Shark has any sort of Disc. to them but alot of Folks rave about them. There has been talk about New Disc. PIs but have heard nothing solid. Whites supposedly has one coming out. But who knows when. Alot of folks been waiting on the Pulse Devil and that has been like a 7 yr wait so far. I'm sure Someone WILL come out with something But The Question is when. I believe bda mentioned one in another forum but if I remember right he said he would get it waterproofed wich has me thinkin It's Not an underwater detector as is. Hope this helps a little and I'm sure others will chime in.

[bdahunter]

Here's an exert from an article on PI vs VLF detectors.

PI Summary Pulse Induction metal detectors are specialized instruments. They are generally not suitable for coin hunting urban areas because they do not have the ability to identify or reject ferrous (iron) trash. They can be used for relic hunting in rural areas where iron trash is not present in large quantities, or is desired. They are intended for maximum depth under extreme search conditions such as salt water beaches and highly mineralized ground. In such conditions PI type metal detectors produce superior results when compared to VLF models, particularly in the ability to ignore such extreme ground and penetrate it for maximum depth.

For saltwater hunting a PI goes deep, very deep. An Excal and a CZ21 can't keep up with a good PI in the depth department but they make up for it by eliminating ferrous targets. 4 hours of digging nails will sour your day pretty quickly if you've got a PI machine and a trashy beach. That said, there are major strides afoot in the PI technology area. Several manufacturers are working on a PI that will discriminate iron as well as other metals, so we could be seeing a radical shift to new discriminating PI's at the beach in the fairly near future. It's possible that you may even see PI's showing up in parks as well if the discrimination problem can be addressed, there are going to be some very serious holes to fill.
Right now I am monitoring the Pulse Devil out of Australia and it's brother the Surf Devil, as well as keeping an eye on what may be coming out of the White's Skunkworks in the form of the new TDI PI machine that everyone is whispering about in PI circles. If it's all they say it is I'll be signing up for one as it should bury the Minelab prospecting machines that are currently cutting edge for Gold Prospectors.
One of the big problems with heavy duty PI machines is that they are specialized machines (at least or now) and as a result they are also Very Expensive. If the technology gets advanced enough the high sticker price shouldn't be an issue as a determined Surf Pirate could pay off the machine with about a month's hard hunting, maybe less.
The other consideration will be, how deep do you want to dig? Digging a pull tab at 12" is a little annoying but digging it at 24" to 36" would be a real pain in the keester!
I'll wait a little bit longer before I jump on the PI bandwagon because currently the technology doesn't suit my style of hunting - currently.

Cheers,

BDA

Thanks guys, I appreciate your help with this one. This isn't going to be a decision I want to make overnight as I won't be buying a back-up wet detector anytime in the foreseeable future. Just too many irons in the fire. Some of the answers you good folks have offered have opened up new sets of questions. I'm going to need to take a day to digest and reference some this. I can't help but draw a nervous parallel between my reasons behind buying my MXT and the decision now coming up for the wet detector. I bought the MXT with hopes that it would be a strong contender universally, you know, from wet sand to hot Sierra. So far it seams to be performing well in the dirt and acceptably at the beach. I can't speak for what's covered in snow. In hindsight did my desire to save a few bucks by purchasing what has been referred to as an "intermediate detector", by some, handicap me in the long run. My point in the form of a question: will the Excallibur, by no means an inexpensive machine, serve me admirably for most of my waterworks? That's not something I expect an answer to. But you get an idea as to my train of thought. And Buster I'm curious what possessed you to buy the PI detector you currently own?
Thanks Guys

[Buster]

Muse, I was thinking about water detecting because I live a few miles from the beach...I was using my XLT on the sand, but wanted to get farther into the water. I ran into a guy who was hunting about 10 feet from shore and I talked to him for about 30 minutes about water hunting...He would not say a lot at first, but after awhile he told me what was up..He said that there are plenty of people hunting on the beach, but only him in the water...Stuff gets lost in the water mostly and that was were all the good stuff would be at..He then showed me his scoop that he made and other stuff that was need to hunt in the water..I thought that I would like to give this a try....I then had a chance to buy a Whites PI from Tinman and I did... Tinman was up grading and I was wanting to learn the ways of the water...He sent his PI down to me and told me to try it out..If I liked it then send him some money..If not send it back.. I had not been on here that long and I really didn't know him and he just did this for me...He is a good person and very trusting to have done that...we need more people like him in our every day lives for sure...Anyway I started using it and I think I can do well with that machine for sure....As I said I have found a few rings, coins and plenty of pull tabs...It's a metal finder for sure.Another good one to talk to would be BDA...He is the master hunting pirate for sure.....Hope this answers your questions...Buster.....

Can't thank you gents enough both Tinmans and the BDA. Tinman I appreciate the offer on the Whites info and may yet take you up on it but knowing some of my limits I'm thinking more towards the VLF at this point." Digging a pull tab at 12" is a little annoying but digging it at 24" to 36" would be a real pain in the keester!"
BDA, on the mark as usual and hope you'll allow me to continue bouncing questions off ya when I get closer to baggin a target. It's guys like yourselves that make this forum exceptional.