Missouri Ghost Towns

[ERnurse]

First off welcome to TQ. I hope you find our site informative and helpful, and as enjoyable as I do. I think things started off wrong.

Most of the things we dig up I don't think would fall under any historic site act. Such as clad coins lost 2 weeks ago by uncle Earl, or someones gold ring lost on the beach, or even pre 1964 silver coins lost at a town picnic.

Sometimes we do find something really old, and we come on here and share it with about 4000 people. I have a Civil War era Saddle sturrip that is in the Desoto County Mississippi Museum in Hernando where it was found. I wasn't admonished for finding it. They were glad to have a part of their history on display for everyone to see instead of lying in some field for an eternity.

As far as selling Native American Aritifacts, I know it goes on, I don't do it, but it is big business in some circles. Either way, it is history that is unearthed and now passing thru the hands of people who have never touched something thoussands of years old, instead of sitting behind 1 inch glass, and having kids wonder what it would be like to touch something like that.

I'm glad you are here because I feel we can learn alot from each other. So while you are telling us what is off limits, tell us the story behind the area, what has been found there, where are those items now. Then maybe a line of communication could be established. We are all history buffs. We like the story behind things, as much as, the thing itself. Maybe you could use your back ground to identify and date items that are posted on here, and to talk about their historic value. Then that may lead to someone wanting their item in a museum so they can say they found something historic and it's on display.

Just my 2 cents, hope you stay with us at TQ, and become an active member.

[leesumm]

It was mentioned in a reply earlier here and in several other posts of "placer gold" , placer deposits, etc. Please tell , for those who dont know (me for one) . What is placer gold , placer deposits ? What does it look like, how can it be identified ? I have looked on the net and all I can find is geologists and archeologists telling what it looks like and where it might be found . I am not one to make a visual picture of something on words alone. Is there somewhere one can actually look and see a picture of what placer is ?

[rip]

Originally Posted by coopers_MO_Archaeology

I think thats an Little unfair! My Health is Not that Great Anymore.

I started out in 1975 with my first Metal Detector from Whites, then in 1987-89 a better one of Garrett's - nice for the Price back then! I would hit City Parks and Swining areas. But I never made it as being Rich at all!! But I was almost fined Big Time for it an Unknown Civil War site here in Missouri....

But I have been Working as Archaeologist in the State of Missouri since 1981 and Now I can't Do the Work, because My Health and Three Back Surgeries....

But I still Search the fields for Historical and Pre-historical Artifacts and Record these Missouri Pre & Post Civil war Extinct (Not Ghosttowns) Towns as Archaeological Sites....

It most Cases, the Land Owners are the Ones, that Will not Allow the persons on their lands for Metal Detectors or (Detectorists!)

I have nothing against detectorists!

But I have Hard time seeing High Grade or Museum pieces of Missouri's Civil War Artifacts being Sold on the Internet at my Non-Favorite E-Bay site! And even have an harder time seeing someone Selling Native American - Prehistoric Artifacts!

DITTO, DITTO...........I am Retired Archaeologist.... So it Sounds Like I am Not Liked! Or Well I will get Over It!!! DITTO DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ch

But I will Help Anyone Out In form or Shape Of Archaeology and Someone WHO WANTS TO SAVE THE PAST AND DOES NOT WANT IT LOST FOR GOOD......

AND I AM VERY HELPFUL AND WILL TELL YOU ANYTHING YOU WANT TO HEAR OR LEARN, about MISSOURI'S PAST OR MISSOURI'S EXTINCT TOWNS!!

Oh! By The Way I do Still Use An Garret Metal for Hunting Northeastern or Northwestern Missouri FOR GOLD Placers And In COLORADO STREAMS or NEW MEXICO or ARIZONA STREAMS Or Outback-Country!!!!! DITTO!!

P.S. I Don't Care If You Don't Like Me, Because I Don't Care!!!! DITTO!! DITTO!!!

Like I said there are some good archies out there.You sound like you just might be one of the good ones.As a kid I allways wanted to be an archeolagist.Thats one of the things that got me into detecting.I think it's more of a case of the idiots that make the laws and dont really have a clue as to what we as detectorists are all about that mess things up.Many of the archies that are cousing problems are the ones that if you were to go to there homes you would find that they have some pretty impressive collections of artifacts.So why should they be able to collect these artifacts but not us.Most sites here in America really arent that old.Why should a site be left to rot when there isent really anything we would learn by digging it up ? If we want to learn anything about our past we dont need to dig,all ya have to do is read first hand accounts from our history books,old newspapers etc.! As Rob said,it's better to be able to touch history than to look trough a piece of glass.Who do you think will have the most respect for our history a kid that actually goes out and find's an old artifact or one that just glances at something while being led through some boring old museum.(boring to a kid that is ).

[leesumm]

For something to do to kill time I would like to repeat a conversation from the other day while in the woods with a metal detector.
I was in a National Forest near where I live , I had heard of an old magnesium mine at the end of a coultasack where some hunters had camped in the past and I was there "exploring the area". I have in the past talked to the US Forestry office and the local US Forestry Law Enforcement officer in this district about using a metal detector in the forest and checking out the camp areas where hunters have been while deer and bear hunting and got a favorable "go ahead" in those areas. I might also add that my cousin's husband father is also the ex Law Enforcement officer in this area (retired) and he tells the same thing , metal detecting in those areas is ok if looking for lost coins, shell casings, knifes etc. what ever hunters have lost as long as its not in a historical area or a archeological area or marked with 3 white spots on a post
Back to the story, while I was there , I was in the middle of a looking at the site and drinking a cup of coffee and a forestry official pulls up and stops asking if I was in trouble or needed help. My reply was telling him exactly what I was doing and why. ONE thing led to another and I discovered the guy was actually a nephew of my cousins husband's father who is the retired law enforcement official. I had told him I did find 3 pennies just now and was wondering where the mine was or if there was one. He pointed to the general area and also told me where another shaft was on top of the hill which I didnt know about . He said " you know, its funny, they (assuming they meant the archeologosits and geologists) would prefer you pick up a lost silver dollar than to pick up a rock "
I dont know about any one else but here in Arkansas rocks are a dime for a million. I have so many rocks in my yard alone that grass wont grow, why would I want to pick up a rock ?
I might add also that we have had a very very wet year this winter and the ground is super saturated . Recently we had 2 very wet heavy snows one about 12 inches and one within 3 days along with 6 inches of rain about 8 inches of wet heavy snow the last one. Trees are down everywhere on the roads and travel is less that easy. There have been many many forestry personell out removing the trees . But then I have past about as many driving around looking than those actually out with chain saws doing the work . Some of the ones working have been imported from Utah , Idaho, Montana to do work while the ones who are from this area are out driving around looking. Makes me wonder what is up with the government

[pris]

Originally Posted by coopers_MO_Archaeology

I think thats an Little unfair! My Health is Not that Great Anymore.

I started out in 1975 with my first Metal Detector from Whites, then in 1987-89 a better one of Garrett's - nice for the Price back then! I would hit City Parks and Swining areas. But I never made it as being Rich at all!! But I was almost fined Big Time for it an Unknown Civil War site here in Missouri....

But I have been Working as Archaeologist in the State of Missouri since 1981 and Now I can't Do the Work, because My Health and Three Back Surgeries....

But I still Search the fields for Historical and Pre-historical Artifacts and Record these Missouri Pre & Post Civil war Extinct (Not Ghosttowns) Towns as Archaeological Sites....

It most Cases, the Land Owners are the Ones, that Will not Allow the persons on their lands for Metal Detectors or (Detectorists!)

I have nothing against detectorists!

But I have Hard time seeing High Grade or Museum pieces of Missouri's Civil War Artifacts being Sold on the Internet at my Non-Favorite E-Bay site! And even have an harder time seeing someone Selling Native American - Prehistoric Artifacts!

DITTO, DITTO...........I am Retired Archaeologist.... So it Sounds Like I am Not Liked! Or Well I will get Over It!!! DITTO DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But I will Help Anyone Out In form or Shape Of Archaeology and Someone WHO WANTS TO SAVE THE PAST AND DOES NOT WANT IT LOST FOR GOOD......

AND I AM VERY HELPFUL AND WILL TELL YOU ANYTHING YOU WANT TO HEAR OR LEARN, about MISSOURI'S PAST OR MISSOURI'S EXTINCT TOWNS!!

Oh! By The Way I do Still Use An Garret Metal for Hunting Northeastern or Northwestern Missouri FOR GOLD Placers And In COLORADO STREAMS or NEW MEXICO or ARIZONA STREAMS Or Outback-Country!!!!! DITTO!!

P.S. I Don't Care If You Don't Like Me, Because I Don't Care!!!! DITTO!! DITTO!!!

Okay, so here is where I take my foot in hand and place it firmly into my mouth. I whole heartedly appologize for my comments. You would think that I would have learned by now not to judge anyone, eh? Well, I would like to humbly ask your forgiveness, sir. I in no way, shape, or form meant to insult you. I think I may have read your original post in a different way than you meant it to be read. Please don't take my behavior as a representation of this wonderful website...I'm very happy that you're a fellow detectorist and sorry to hear about your back. I sure hope you're able to get out and hunt in the near future.

[Buster]

I too would like to apologize also...I wanted to become an archaeologist when I was a kid also...Never did..Did get to work on a lot of airplanes and jets during my time in the military..I still like history and everything that I can read about it...I think that we could learn a lot of good stuff from you about things that we don't know of...Please give this family another chance and let us start over...Let me say that I am Sorry again for any misunderstandings that we all may have had...Buster...

[MinelabMan]

I will have to reserve my apology.


I ditto'd Pris, because in your first line you made the comment "And for making sure people obey the laws of the State of Missouri and the Land owners!" I was taken aback because I wasn't aware that Archaeologists had enforcement powers? And taken literally seemed arrogant" I understand that there are some "bad eggs" among detectorists (and Archaeologists alike), but I believe most detectorists will return the ground to the condition they found it, remove trash and won't trespass. I don't condone breaking any laws so if I misunderstood you, please explain what it is you meant.


And now, in your second post you state "But I have Hard time seeing High Grade or Museum pieces of Missouri's Civil War Artifacts being Sold on the Internet at my Non-Favorite E-Bay site! And even have an harder time seeing someone Selling Native American - Prehistoric Artifacts!"


These are items that may have never seen the light of day if a dectorist hadn't dug it up. I see a few choices here: Call the Historical Society and possibly have our detecting site taken away, leave it in the ground to rot, keep it or sell it.


If the latter is chosen, Archaeologists could then buy the pieces that they'd like for a museum. I actually have several CW bullets that I've dug and am keeping, and several CW artifacts that I picked up at an auction and plan to list those on your "Non-Favorite E-Bay site" fairly soon. I'm not prejudiced about who buys them.


It isn't a secret that Archaeologists generally don't want detectorists around, and like Rip said, maybe you're one of the better ones, and I hope you are and I just misunderstood your meaning, and I welcome you to TQ as a fellow detectorist.

Regardless, I don't mean to offend and I'm sincerely saddened to hear about your health problems and will say a prayer for your healing.

[LeoinPA]

Hey Minelabman

I'm with you and Prises first assesment. I will reserve judgment until later, but right now I'm not too sure. You and me live in PA, and not MO. The laws may be different, but I highly doubt they'd be that much different. I thought only the crown of England could make a dictate that what's in the ground belonged to it and not the landowner, and didn't we have a war over that in 1776 with the resulting amendment explaining forefeiture of property without just compensation?

What I will appologise for is a little rant, as my ire was raised a bunch when I read the post the first time last night, and from someone who is retired and not working at that job any more. Discretion dictated until I calmed down a little, before posting. I've calmed down a lot.

I feel for the guy and understand the medical disability, as I'm also not working because of a disability, and will retire from it in 2011. But that does not give me the right to use that as an excuse to impose those types of restrictions, or impose my will on others. Let's see: "I'm broken". "because of that, you will......." Nah! doesn't compute. Harsh maybe, but.......

We'll see

Thanks
Leo

[Dixieldy]

I'd love to know how long you have to go to school to become an archeologist? I have thought about going back to school and would love to become one. Welcome to TQ! I hope you will come back and contribute to the site.

[EPC Guy]

Sorry to sound harsh - but MOST archaeologists give me the same impression as most medical doctors -and that is - "I know it all and YOU know nothing". A few months ago I placed a small ad on Craig's list saying that I was looking for places to MD - and that in return, I'd be willing to look for lost personal items, etc. etc. I immediately received a response from an archaeologist who wanted to "help" me by making sure I didn't dig in protected areas, catalogued my finds, etc. I thanked her for her concern and let it flow by...THEN I received a second e-mail with a list of places to obtain the proper forms in order to catalogue my finds - and with her wanting to know exactly where I'd been hunting. I wrote back and told her that it was none of her business where I'd been hunting - to which SHE replied that it "most certainly WAS her business" to determine if I'd been hunting in areas that were protected or off limits to detectorists."

Finally, I'd had enough and told her that although I wasn't likely to ever reach the same lofty heights of intelligence as she - I DO have a degree in business, I have managed and directed not one, not two - but THREE multi-million dollar business operations - and I damned sure have enough intelligence to read NO TRESPASSING signs and avoid preserved archaeological sites.

She hasn't written me since...so forgive me, Mr. Archaeologist - if I have a bit of a hard time buying the spin you're trying to put on your first post. I rarely ever respond in a negative way to posts - but in this case, I must fall back on something my grand-daddy used to say..."If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...." I'm sure you get my point.